5 Hours to change one rear rotor....

"K-Roll-PorscheTamer" (k-roll390) 07/13/2020 at 11:15 • Filed to: 924 turbo

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All because I knocked the parking brake shoes loose when I hammered the old rotor off the hub. and because it’s essentially a drum brake system (I hate and had never worked on drums brakes until now), I had to force 40 year old springs that didn’t wanna spring, to spring.

But it’s okay now! I can do the passenger side in less than an hour, I now have a basic idea of how drum brakes work and now I can do all the drums (LIES, I WILL AVOID DRUMS TO THE END OF TIME IF I CAN HELP IT).

BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 07/13/2020 at 11:22

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Been there!  I’ve come nearly close to pulling the whole shoe off before, too, because it was so stuck. 

jminer > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 07/13/2020 at 11:25

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Drum brakes are one of those things that are terrifying and frustrating to work on the first time. The trick is you need a couple specialized tools that make the world of difference when disassembling or assembling them which make it a ton easier.

Like you though I hate working on the parking brake drum on rear discs - they’re a huge pain.

Nicely done though!

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > jminer 07/13/2020 at 11:31

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My specialized tools consisted of vice grips, a breaker bar as a pry lever, a flathead screwdriver, and my hands. Once I got one side in place, I used the bar to pry the other half enough to fit the tensioner in place. That was honestly the worst aspect of the job.

But I can do it again and much quicker this time, should I need to. 

TheRealBicycleBuck > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 07/13/2020 at 11:31

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My first brake job was on a set of drum brakes on my grandma’s car. My uncle taught me that it was ok to use a 5-lb sledgehammer on a car when you’re trying to get a rusted drum broken loose.

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > jminer 07/13/2020 at 11:32

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This.  You really need a drum brake spring tool and pliers, otherwise you'll struggle mightily without.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind 07/13/2020 at 11:32

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Unfortunately, I took the shoes out initially, thinking that’s what I needed to do. Turns out I just needed to nudge and massage it back into alignment with the ID of the rotor. Big whoops.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > TheRealBicycleBuck 07/13/2020 at 11:34

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When I helped my friend take off the drums on his Opel GT, it took days of mallets and the majority of my torch to break it open. He’d just put new drums on within the last couple of months so how it’d gotten stuck in place was a mystery.

dogisbadob > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 07/13/2020 at 11:36

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You probably should’ve replaced the shoes and springs anyway

I like the ones where the parking brake just uses the rear pads. Also, you should’ve gotten coated rotors because uncoated will rust in a few hours or overnight at the latest :(

shit, are those captive rotors? Fuck that stupid hub over rotor shit. Honda used to do that too

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 07/13/2020 at 11:44

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My subaru has a drum parking brake too, and when I went to change the rear rotors I was dumbfounded. This was the first time in my life I ever saw two sets of brakes on a car on the same wheel. Major wow moment. Amazingly if you don’t mess with the shoes the re-installation process was very easy. 

66P1800inpieces > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 07/13/2020 at 11:45

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My Volvo 1800 has Drums that go onto a tapered axle (with a square key). You need to use a special puller to pull them bc if you try to use a three jaw you can crack the drum.

jminer > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 07/13/2020 at 11:46

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It’s only a couple bucks worth of tools that would have made it way easier than struggling with what you had.

As ITA97 notes a spring tool and drum brake pliers make a world of difference.

https://www.harborfreight.com/drum-brake-spring-pliers-kit-3-pc-63640.html

PyroHoltz f@h Oppo 261120 > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 07/13/2020 at 11:46

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Congrats, you’re now one of us!

I started wrenching on cars in the early 90s, as a kid and quickly learned after doing drum brakes, they are the thing of the devil to work on. My dad on the other hand, while dislikes some aspects of the maintenance , thinks they’re no big deal...all comes down to what you’re used to and grew up with.   Glad you didn’t lose and eye or finger, those springs can be terrifying.

jminer > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com 07/13/2020 at 11:46

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Oh yeah, the most random looking tools in your box but I’ll never do a drum brake job without them.

TheRealBicycleBuck > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 07/13/2020 at 11:48

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My mom had an O pel wagon when I was a kid. It was the same shade of yellow that they used for the GT.

That car was a mess. The defroster never worked properly, so the rear windows would fog whenever it was cold and wet outside. My job was to lie in the back and wipe down the windows so mom could see. I was reminiscing about that car with my mom and remembered that she and a friend had painted the lower quarter black. What I didn’t remember was that they had done only one side! I still don’t know why they did it in the first place, but it looked cool to grade-school me.

As you can tell, any time someone mentions an Opel GT, I think of this car.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > dogisbadob 07/13/2020 at 11:49

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Maybe yeah, but it’s not a priority now. Maybe in the winter when the car is sitting and the turbo is off to be rebuilt. I typically park with the brake handle up and in gear, I’ll be fine until then.

Didn’t feel like paying 2- 3x as much for coated when I originally did the fronts (budget wasn’t there either) , and wanted the rears to match this time around . You can hardly see them behind the 16" sewer lids so appearance-wise it’s a non-issue for me. When I blow through these rotors and pads, then I’ll switch to a coated rotor like Sebro or Zimm erman n’s.

And yes, they are captive rotors. I honestly haven’t had problems with them. The Mustang and 911 have them as well, and I honestly thought the majority of cars did.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > jminer 07/13/2020 at 11:51

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I agree, but I also went into the job with the intention of replacing just the rotors. I wasn’t prepared for, nor did I even know that this car had shoes for parking brakes. I’d assumed the pads themselves were the brakes. The tools will be useful and I’ll probably buy a set later on, but not at the moment. Probably before I go back in and replace the shoes in the winter.

jminer > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 07/13/2020 at 11:54

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Yeah unless you’re doing many handbrake slides you won’t have to touch them again for a while.

Most cars had this parking brake setup until the mid-00's.  Cheap and reliable way to do it.

hillrat > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 07/13/2020 at 12:14

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This is my worst nightmare as a one car family. You start wrenching and something goes catastrophically wrong and you’re a bit fucked because your vehicle is inoperable.

VincentMalamute-Kim > dogisbadob 07/13/2020 at 12:17

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I hadn’t heard of captive rotors. From your conversation, the rotor is mounted behind the hub somehow. For what reason?

Are my Transit’s rear rotors ‘captive’? They don’t look like K-Roll’s photos. The hub and axle has to be pulled to change the rotor. I don’t understand the rationale for either K-Roll’s or my setup.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > hillrat 07/13/2020 at 12:21

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That does sound really nightmarish. I’ve always lived in a 3-5 car family (3 daily drivers and 1-2 classic cars) I couldn’t do half the stuff I do any other way at this point. At that point it’s time to pull an all- nighter to get the job done no matter the cost.

VincentMalamute-Kim > hillrat 07/13/2020 at 12:22

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Gotta have a spare car if you’re an Oppo. Things always go catastrophically wrong and/or takes days to put back together for me.

Although maybe if I didn’t have backup cars, it ’d be a huge incentive for me to make sure things go right and finish that day!

dogisbadob > VincentMalamute-Kim 07/13/2020 at 12:23

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Yes, yours are captive. If you have to take off the hub, it’s captive aka “hub over rotor”

The most well-known example is the early 90s Accord

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > TheRealBicycleBuck 07/13/2020 at 12:24

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That’s a bizarre Opel story if I’ve ever heard one. I’m confused by painting only one rear quarter as well.

PartyPooper2012 > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 07/13/2020 at 12:28

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I rather stick my foot out of a moving vehicle to brake rather than use drum brakes.... fun fact... i have done just that when drum brakes failed. What garbage that system is... really.

My Lexus and my Corvette both have parking brake system as drum... Corvette barely holds at all. 

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > PartyPooper2012 07/13/2020 at 12:39

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Surprisingly, these have held well and on my old 944 as well (same setup). It was only catching near the top of the handles travel on the 924. I think I’ve adjusted them enough to catch earlier.

MM54 > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 07/13/2020 at 12:49

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Drums are pretty simple from a technical standpoint, there’s just a bunch of little pieces and springs (which are inherently evil). My first car had manual drums on all four wheels. You get used to it.

VincentMalamute-Kim > dogisbadob 07/13/2020 at 13:15

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I watched that entire video. Some neat tips like using the bolts and an air hammer to removing the bearing. But that Honda procedure is nuts! Bearing, ABS sensor, ball joint - yike!

Only the rear on my Transit is captive and is so much easier - just pull five bolts and the axle. Replace a bit of diff fluid that you lost.

But what’s the point of that design?! Honda gave it up in 1997. My Transit is 2017!

dogisbadob > VincentMalamute-Kim 07/13/2020 at 13:25

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Trucks and vans might be different, especially when you have DRW or the need to accommodate DRW.

There is no reason to use it on an Accord, though.

TheRealBicycleBuck > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 07/13/2020 at 13:29

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It was more than the rear quarter. It was more like this:

Except less Ferrari and only on one side.

diplodicus forgot his password > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 07/13/2020 at 14:13

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I don’t think those are captive, unless you put the hub back on the axle for the pictures of the drums shoes. But that axle nut doesn’t look like it was removed.

Boxer_4 > jminer 07/13/2020 at 14:51

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Subaru is just starting to phase out  this method... take that as you will...

Boxer_4 > hillrat 07/13/2020 at 14:54

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Also a word of advice learned from my  dad; make sure that second car isn’t parked in by the car you’re working on...

jminer > Boxer_4 07/13/2020 at 15:36

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US car manufacturers are mostly the same

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > diplodicus forgot his password 07/13/2020 at 15:41

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Ohhhhh, now I see what you’re talking about. Non-captive then.

Thisismydisplayname > hillrat 07/13/2020 at 18:07

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Been there, done that.  It’s no fun at all.

Urambo Tauro > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 07/13/2020 at 19:24

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Drums make for   excellent parking brakes, and that’s about the only good thing I have to say about them.

hillrat > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 07/14/2020 at 06:41

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I live in DC and space to park & work on cars is at a premium, y ou see a lot of dudes wrenching on the street here. It’s only been the last 4 years that I’ve had a fully paved driveway to work in, prior to that we had an uneven, rutted, hard pack driveway that we shared with the rest of a 12 unit condo building. 

Y eah, only having one car is definitely an impediment to doing any kind of long term project but it’s the compromise you make to live in the city.